[Novalug] HP vs Brother printers use with Linux

Jay Hart jhart@kevla.org
Sun Jun 28 14:53:58 EDT 2020


To the list, don't buy an HP Envy Pro 6455...

Step 1: download and install the HP app on your smart phone.....

SCREW THAT!!!!!!

Step 2: return to store!

Jay

> On 6/27/20 5:32 PM, Jay Hart via Novalug wrote:
>> If you had to rate which printer brand works better with Linux (Fedora and Centos), what would it be?
>
> Hey Jay,
> First and foremost, I don't print as much as I used to. But scanning I
> actually still do relatively often so we still have a "3-in-1" printer -
> should be 2-in-1, because I know of NOBODY who seriously still use a FAX.
>
> The next point before I put my vote into the hat is, that we need to
> realize that printer manufacturers do not make money selling printers.
> The make money selling ink. Which means their focus isn't on the
> software side or even feature. I've quite frankly not found any big new
> features on printers for more than a decade. Even speed seems to be
> relatively flat-lined.  To me this means going for one printer vs.
> another isn't really connected to brand. Since the late 1990ies I think
> I've had to deal with every major printer maker's printers and in
> multiple models, at home or for work. I've had good and bad experiences
> with all of them. It's not that simple ... HOWEVER....
>
> Being a Linux guy what I primarily look at is how easy a printer plugs
> into a Linux server/workstations. And the other important aspect is how
> long ink lasts, and these days if you can refill ink yourself.  The last
> few months I've dug into laser printers research online as I think it's
> time to stop paying out the nose for ink per page printed.
>
> Example - HP (our current inkjet printer) claims their extra capacity
> ink cartridges can print 300-400 pages. These cartridges cost around $40
> on average, you can find them cheaper at times. So on average that's
> about 11 cents per page (we actually have two cartridges, and even when
> just printing black/white the color one is still used - so you could
> double this amount). A (random) laser printer toner (black) can be had
> for $150 and will print about 6500 pages (again I don't believe this
> number but relative I think we can use it). That's about 2 cents per
> page.  Or 5 times less than with ink.  And laser printers aren't that
> much more - since HP doesn't sell printers to make a profit - they sell
> ink to make a profit.
>
> So I know the next printer will be a laser printer with a scanner on it
> - we used to call that a copier :D
>
> How to access from Linux?  I agree with those who point out that
> PostScript is relatively standardized and hence will make it easier to
> use "any PS printer". But with that said, outside of HP I find I need to
> use closed source, not well updated (ie. it's provided as tested with
> distro versions so out of date you think you're dealing with antiques).
> I still see Fedora 18 or even earlier listed on the "download sites".
> These companies do not invest in software - when I used Windows back in
> the days, printer software was some of the worst software you could get
> on Windows - badly written, performing and a lot more.
>
> So because "hplip" is included with the distros I touch (ie it's not
> maintained by HP) it makes it fairly easy to get any HP printer
> connected without the need to download odd software. My last Epson
> required this and I had to spend a lot of time customizing/fixing the
> driver to work on the "modern" Linux and with some system upgrades it
> would stop working. Particular scanning would stop working because of
> this.  SANE is still my preferred scanning software, and my HP was found
> and is easily used.  Note, the windows software that HP provides is
> AWFUL - you literately have to first run something on your PC, go to the
> printer and find your PC and tell the printer to scan to it.   With
> Linux I just put in a page (or multiple pages in the feeder) and go to
> easy-scan "app" and hit SCAN to PDF, and I get a PDF with the page (or
> pages) in it. I don't have to setup my workstation as a server etc. to
> make it work.
>
> Lastly - how you connect the printer also has something to do with how
> easy it is to use. I haven't used directly attached printers for a very
> long time. I used to insist on having a physical RJ45 receptical so it
> was easy to add to the home network. Now that I've "upgraded" the
> network to implement full isolation of "smart devices" things have
> changed, and I will allow a WiFi connection as how I reach a printer.
> BUT do realize how your client finds the printer - in most cases it will
> use mDNS (avahi) to announce itself and that's how the print client
> software finds it. CUPS does fine finding it - HOWEVER - when you are
> paranoid like me, and the network segment the printer is on, is NOT The
> same as your Linux workstation, that mDNS doesn't make it to your computer.
>
> Or it will but you'll need to "fix that" on the router by setting up
> mDNS replication and now your "smart" devices will happily flood your
> other network with "connect to me" messages but they still won't have
> access to anything.  Another way is to setup the printer with an old
> fashioned static IP and tell CUPS to just use the IP address and not
> look for the printer. I've used both methods, and once configured "it
> just works".  But the mDNS is the easiest to setup - you literately just
> hit "add printer" in the control panel for printers, and the printer is
> found, model etc. and everything is configured and it's ready to use. If
> you've configured SANE to use networking it too will "just work" and
> find the printer when using mDNS.
>
> Of course if you only have one network segment it "just works" when you
> plug the printer in too.
>
> USB connected printers should "just work" too - out of the box.
>
> My last real experience with Windows was a long time ago; one of the
> things that made me insist that my wife stopped using Windows (she was
> the only one left doing it) was when I had to install a new printer on
> her Windows computer. 2 DVDs of software!! It was a mess - slow, crappy
> and it was clear HP had no clue what they were doing on the software
> side.  I grabbed my trusted Fedora back then, hit "add printer" the
> printer showed up and it was configured in a few seconds. No extra
> software required. So hours of time installing on Windows and a few
> seconds on Linux.  When people told me Linux was harder than Windows I
> just laughed.
>
> So I focus on how easy it is to manage/configure. And I do not want to
> have to download unmaintained and often not working software from these
> ink-pushers. Once it's a FOSS driver - I no longer have preferences. I
> would simply look at the price per printed page since I rarely find big
> differences in quality and speed on the consumer grade printers.
>
>
> I still have a few old printers in the basement that we stopped using
> because they ended up eating ink for lunch. Given the price of ink we
> could get a new printer for the $$$ spent in a single month for ink back
> in the days. When your ink cost $60 and a new basic ink-jet printer cost
> $80 it certainly questions whether you should change ink or change the
> printer.
>
> --
> Regards
>   Peter Larsen
>
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