[Novalug] IRC chat and IP address privacy

jerry w jerrywone@gmail.com
Fri Dec 23 01:40:34 EST 2016


So Santa@NorthPole.com....

So sad, Nick...

I used to IRC, but BitchX seemed to have gone away, so what was the point?
EPIC...

But I digress.

Finding people with e911 and other tools is useful some times.  The few who
have my phone number / email given to them by me, in various communities,
probably got a don't  send suicide notes, etc.  At least a couple people
may have called me not making sense, then I found out died.  And prank and
threatening calls.  That's without collections type stuff.  Oddly, comms
is what is most late, past due.   But subsidized is still on, just eon get
many bars/signal, and several important times get temp service
unavailable,  whatever the cannot call cell phone codes are.

Stalking existed before the internet, but several FLOSS luminaries have had
some problems, makes you wonder profit motive v. Freedom...  Are they
hunted down for not being greedy, essentially.

Privacy hasn't existed, at least well, for a long time.

Dialin was usually used when I was chatting more.  PreDSL,
precableinternet.  And not much WiFi back then.  And that was maybe 7-10+
years ago on international chats about personal money problems.  Many times
in bad travelling/commuting weather.

Public WiFi  is a b $#%@, and far too many people round here
overhear/evesdrop and repeat too much of my few voice calls.  Slums suck.
Financial and gang predators are more the norm than the exception,
including people paid to help. Calls seem to be jumped on, interrupted by
someone else's voice asking personal questions about stuff, pretending to
be the trusted person called.  Person to person would be extra costs, and
operator intervention.  Monitoring and security titles misused by imposters
who don't really identify.  Phishing, social engineering, etc.

But, again, I digress.  Difficulty breathing and woke up, seemingly
hyperventilating/breathing heavy, so might be basically cardiac at night.
And then there are the smokers locked in at night in a supposedly no
smoking building and shared ventilation system problems...  even without
pesticides and other vape/spray/noxious  issues .

And gone way off topic.  Wonder if religion was genned  to help get thru
difficult winters.  Post solstice, scientifically/physically days getting
longer, but more snow, bad weather before it's over, spring.  Lag time.

And that is without party change, austerity measures,  etc.
ClimateChange.WayBackMachine.org anyone?

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 00:38 Peter Larsen via Novalug <
novalug@firemountain.net> wrote:

> On 12/22/2016 10:46 PM, James Ewing Cottrell III via Novalug wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 12/16/2016 9:23 PM, Peter Larsen via Novalug wrote:
> >> On 12/16/2016 08:01 PM, James Ewing Cottrell III via Novalug wrote:
> >>> Why? Can't you even be Comfortable with Your Own Kind?!?
> >>>
> >>> I could see this kind of Obfuscation in e Political Forum perhaps, but
> >>> among Linux Geeks?
> >>>
> >>> Once again I ask WHY?!?
> >>
> >> Jim - I get the feeling you're not hanging out on IRC that often?
> >
> > Not since, well, Ages Ago.
>
> That's a shame. Not only do I have "old" friends there, but it's where
> it happens for most FOSS projects. It's where you get direct access to
> those who actually code and design the stuff we all use, where people
> have fun and get to know each other so it's not all about bits and
> bytes.  Heck, it's where we have project meetings and much more.  IRC is
> well and alive.
>
> >
> > ? I wear
> >> a cloak - I've done that pretty much constantly since I started with
> >> Relay Chat in the late 80ies (yes, before the WWW).
> >
> > Like when IRC became as Relevant as Usenet...
>
> I trust you still use that browser of yours that was invented back then
> too? I had the pleasure of working with some of the folks creating some
> of the first relay systems and that "simple" principle of creating a
> master forum out of lot of distinct and different servers was quite a
> challenge (still is if you're on the admin side).  And because it's so
> well an established technology with tons of clients, we have a mass of
> tools too to make it easy to coordinate IRC events with events in build
> systems, BZs and much much more.  Well, and silly games :)
>
> >
> >> I would not be able
> >> to use IRC if it wasn't for the cloak. We meet all kind of people on
> >> IRC,
> >
> > Well, one who hope that the Flames in a Linux Group would be Safer and
> > Saner than the Flames in Other Places.
>
> You misunderstand what a cloak is. Yes it hides your IP which is
> important, but it's more than that. It's a badge. It shows your
> association with a group/project. As I showed you with my /whois
> information.
>
> >
> >> and I have no interest having anyone showing up at my doorstep one
> >> day because they looked up an IP address/trace of my connection
> >> information.
> >
> > At Your Doorstep? Surely an IP Address doesn't give you That Much
> > Precision.
>
> Without giving any details here - I've directed emergency response (911)
> to addresses of people I had information from via IRC. It doesn't have
> to be precise for you to know where to call to get precise information.
> Like a campus, work directory etc.  With a bit of normal social
> engineering the IP allows you to complete the 'puzzle".  Why do you
> think so many uses VPN gateways to get to IRC?
>
> >
> > ? Also, part of the security on IRC is tied to your location
>
> Rarely if ever actually.  Now, you can CHOOSE to use secure connections
> using keys etc to get connected, but in the end your location is not
> important. If you choose to connect to a server with a high latency
> that's your problem ;)   But let's get to the bottom of this - your IP
> is of course not hidden to the IRC server or you wouldn't be able to
> communicate with it. It's just a matter of who can see that information.
> Someone with klink and other server level access can of course see your
> real connection at any point.
>
> >> and ID - keeping the easy identifiable information hidden. That's
> >> regardless of the topic - from sillyness, IRC management to FOSS groups.
> >> If you enter FOSS channel on Freenode for instance, you'll find all OPS
> >> and frequent volunteers are all cloaked.
> >
> > I suppose this hides you from DoS attacks, but I would hope your ISP
> > does that for you.
>
> Not really - it's IRC, it's easy to send anyone you know the nick of
> messages. That's why we have bots and other features in our clients to
> block DDOS (floods) and other attacks. Well run channels will run bots
> for you. And most clients will deny DCC and other nasty stuff out of the
> box. Bottom line, my IP is never used for anything on IRC except for
> "cops" if you violate server rules and need to be blocked. They can
> setup rules to prevent access from your IP, your network or even your
> country.
>
> >
> >> Other reasons for cloaking is to show association with the group. It
> >> shows you have a history with them, have a certain level of "cloud". It
> >> shows you sponsor and support the group (or service). And some cloaks
> >> have been given out honorary. Remember, this is from before we had
> >> "badges" and cloaks have worked much in the same way.
> >
> > I don't get it. If Everyone is Anonymous, how can you tell who the
> > Imposters are? All you have done is to Identify the Noobies.
>
> There are lots of different cloaks - badges. And part of IRC is that you
> wear what-ever hat you want. We use our "cloaks" and other channel masks
> to identity who we are. Some channels clearly identify OPS, other use a
> policy that you only OP when needed - trying to make an even playing
> field for everyone. Others use "voice" to indicate your role - and a lot
> more than that. I've known people for years as a "nick' without knowing
> their "real name" - IRC is like that. You can be who you want to be.
> People who thinks that their "anonymity" protects them, quickly realize
> how wrong they are. You're hidden to other "normal" users - that's it.
>
> >
> >> For instance, on Freenode this is my "whois":
> >> plarsen[~plarsen@redhat/jboss/pdpc.professional.plarsen]
> >> realname : Peter Larsen
> >> server: niven.freenode.net [London, UK, EU]
> >>           : is using a secure connection
> >>
> >> Some even hide their names - or use the name field for "statements" -
> >> political, humor what-ever.  My cloak explains to people who I am so
> >> there's no hidden agenda. But it also hides identifying information
> >> about where I'm connecting from which is also important.  The Cloak in
> >> my case proves my association with Red Hat, Fedora and JBoss. You don't
> >> have to trust that someone is why they say they are that way.
> >
> > Well, you have merely Claimed to be that, not Proved it. How could you
> > tell if I used that same whois info (don't worry, I won't)?
>
> Well, I guess no more than you've done claiming to be James/Jim :)
>
> As to taking my identity on Freenode,  you cannot :)  Freenode will not
> allow you. I've registered this identity/nick - which is something most
> IRC users do pretty quickly.  Or let me provoke a bit - what would
> prevent you from calling yourself "Abraham" and use this mailing list as
> "lincoln@usa.net" ??  Just because you use that name in your email
> doesn't make that the real you?  Without any kind of electronic
> signature, it's fairly straight forward to claim to be you. We see a lot
> of that with phishing all the time.  At worst, IRC has similar protections.
> >
> >> Quite frankly I cannot recall seeing FOSS members without a cloak in a
> >> long time. Once people become active on IRC they usually get a cloak
> >> very fast.
> >
> > As Scump would say, "Very Sad".
>
> As I've explained, I think your definition of cloak is a bit different
> than what it's intended to be.
>
>
> --
> Regards
>   Peter Larsen
>
>
>
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