[Novalug] Posting stories (explainations of things)

Walt Smith waltechmail@yahoo.com
Sun Dec 4 14:19:55 EST 2016


inline comments:


> You guys should organize all these talks into an
> "Understanding Linux Network Configuration, 2014++" article
> for the novalug website?
> I would read it!

>Unless we're talking a "Networking ABC" that covers from the OSI layers
>to TCP/IP specific implementation that teaches how networking actually
>works, I'm pretty sure I couldn't do any better that official product
>documentation in regards on how the Network Manager tooling works.

>Unless we're talking a "Networking ABC" that covers from the OSI layers
>to TCP/IP specific implementation that teaches how networking actually
>works, I'm pretty sure I couldn't do any better that official product
>documentation in regards on how the Network Manager tooling works.

 >looked at the citation

>https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_
>Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Networking_Guid
><https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Networking_Guide>

t>o see what Network Teaming was, and was
>completely unenlightened.
>- So some more complete stories would be welcome.


**    An aspect I think should be expanded:  There is 
configuration, which can be gui or specific fileFixes.  The 
configurations depends on the network interconnections 
and use.  Theory of the layers of OSI and matching to 
specific Linux commands are 2  different thingys.  
Knowing how commands/utilites work independently 
would be a little more fundamental before trying to do 
network configuration.  Or in addition to.

bottom up:  
packet/frame/transport theory
internetworking/commands
network configuration

And, it seems to be forgotten that there's not necessarily a
compelling reason to 1) start at the top or bottom.
The middle is acceptable with aside info and examples.
(I'm trying- 10 line paragraph was deleted here ]

Networking - or any widely used and developed
computer technology - is NOT rocket science. It's
complicated, it can be complex, it's an art form in
that there's a LOT of specifics to remember. It's
NOT abstract, it's not elevated theory.   To answer a 
couple guys who need to counter:  Areas Are for example
abstract when abstracts are forced upon it by high
minded thinkers in terminology: virtual this and that,
containers, classes etc...  but since those abstracts are
immediately implemented, is it really abstract ?
( this is WAY off topic ).

It has been pointed out -- "where do you draw the lines"--
when it comes to describing what something does or doesn't
do.  I think I defined that for NetworkManager from a persons POV
with little exposure - whether by literature or friend consulting,  
who is a wanna be professional, or someone who doesn't have a 
presenter who can explain the textually written details, or someone
not of classic academic grade A background.  And knowing what 
something Doesn't Do is important toward learning.  I think my
definition was reasonable. There's not a lot about how/what 
technology has been integrated or  repackaged ( Wireless AP
with 4 post router, swich, DHCP, firewall, MAc filter etc etc.. ).
This made if more difficult for me reading existing  literature
online.


My sentiments reside with the comment about about non-
enlightenment.  Thats my case with most of the literature, and
as I do more, I find wikipedia seeming to become much more
useful as their articles - many of which of at a PhD. level, or
just containing no useful info, gradually move toward having
just the right info --- as an example.   Articles are written by
most - as I said before -- like every C book since Kernigan and
Ritchie - are almost copies of each other.  And sometimes someone
writes in an additional example because it wasn't what They 
understood when they read it.

At the other end, is the desire for conciseness.  Most material is far
too concise.  As a reference., like man pages, thats fine.  But many
articles are written so a writer can sell himself, sell a product, or
- IMHO -  written for a very specific. case.. I've found a number of
things I think I want to do either cannot be done, or are simply
no written about, and if it it, it uses technology not in  use today-
whether program names, or options, or distro specific--- Ubuntu
has made great strides in this area, and much of it's literature in
now looked at be people using other distros.

>Actually, one of the main problems with man pages is the
>lack of definitions and contexts of things, and the lack of examples; both
>would greatly expand the size of a man page, but so what?
>Such material could come at the end, or even in a separate "page".

** There was earlier discussion about man pages, and info is 
mentioned. I've read the argument about difficulties into
converting man pages to another form, such as html.  We're
way WAY past that. If someone or a group want to continue to
present in man pages or info, thats fine.  It their time or money.

However, many web sites have the man pages in html which 
is much easier to read, and often contains links to the various 
other buzz tech words.  For a distro, it's time to move to all man
pages to html.   If the source is still "man page"  ( whose creation
is merely done from a text editor and often just fed into a script to
format, ), then html is no beyond reasonabilty. Granted, I'm not
personally involved in the process.  But thats my POV.

html would solve the problem of links and contexts with additional
input which Seem to be happening on many web sites. ( finding
useful/recommended info is difficult but again wikipedia is moving
quick to take up the distro's doc work.  

>We've had calls for volunteers quite a few times for novalug.com - this
>is definitely something that could be done

**  I was on this maillist for 10 years or so, and saw references 
once or twice to novalug.com and tux.com, and saw outdated 
web sites, and otherwise had no idea what they were for 
except of hosting the maillist.  And hence no reason to go visit again.
This is NOT a complaint.  I realize that volunteers
don't often maintain schedules or updates etc.  I'm fairly passive
myself and don't pretend to pull my fair share.  For "newer" list
members, this is merely FYI.  A fear is one of getting dumped on
if one volunteers, or dropping the ball and looking irresponsible.
( obvious social group difficulties ).  It's also true that dividing up
the work into really small segments and changing who does
it based on family or work responsibilites helps.  ( G A W D  !!!
who am  *I * to say this !!! )

>To be concrete, what is missing? What would make it more complete?  To
>be sure, Red Hat's RHEL based manuals aren't there to teach computer
>science. They work very bad for that and I don't think I would suggest
>someone just using the man pages if they're attempting to learn how
>networking works for instance.  The idea of bonding/teaming.......
>[snip]
> the different protocols are not laid
>out in a way that would make you understand those "nasty details". The
>targeted reader would be someone who wants to know how to do X in RHEL,
>and the manual would cover all of that.

**   agreed !!
man pages don't teach - they're concise (  VERY concise in most cases ).
RHEL are closer to being User Manuals.  To take a somewhat experienced 
person in an enterprise environment and help out.. Written VERY much the
same way as distro Manuals for Irix/SGI, DEC, etc.  The assumption is you
already are experienced or are in an environment with a "Senior"/mentor,
or were a straight A academic in school.  Remembering back to their
early days and getting the perspecitve right often doesn't happen  ( poke poke ).
 
We must remember BOTH the arrays:  the breadth of the written data,
the depth of the written data, and the depth of experiience of employees
and casual users.  ( I'm realizing I'm sermonizing -- sorrrry ! )

>For this kind of user, I would expect them to use the GUI help. In
>fedora I would hit "meta" and type "help". In the help window, I would
>type "print" and lo and behold, the first option is named " Cancel,
>pause or release a print job" - I kid you not :)  But it's all based on
>the GUI (GNome). It doesn't cover the details of cups. And it shouldn't.

>> How do you lookup (ON the sytem, not via google,) how to
>> reprint this file without doing another lp command?

>If you're a command line guy you should know man. "man -k -s 1 printing"
>>gives you cups:
cups (1)             - a standards-based, open source printing system

>So you type "man cups" and you can then see lp and all the other
>utilities. But really, command line is far from beginner/easy stuff for
>users.


** agreed.    Mary Mudmaker isn't a commmand line person.

[
to tell the truth, I forgot or chose not to remember how to insert all 
the ">" at line start in any editor etc...  so I did it all manually....
kinda pathetic right ??  Just shows how MUCH you have to remember !!
Over 50, one idea goes in, two more drop out.
]

Walt .....
----


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