[Novalug] [OT] The farce of the cost of college

Walt Smith waltechmail@yahoo.com
Sun Jun 7 13:50:36 EDT 2015


bottom post

To: Bonnie Dalzell <bdalzell@qis.net>
Subject: Re: [Novalug] [OT] The farce of the cost of college -- WAS:
    Diversity

On Sat, 6 Jun 2015, Beartooth AND Bonnie Dalzell via Novalug wrote:

> If I had children I would want them to go there which would mean I would have
> to move back to the state (as did my mother) so they could benefit from the
> big in state tuition break.

    Some states, iirc including yours, let out of state
students pay instate tuition so long as they kept up at least a C
average. What ever became of the offshore oil money??

-----------------------

I only wish I was a touch typist.
Wouldn't make much difference though since I can't read or think
as fast as these threads fly by ...  it'll take 3 months to catch up
on the last weeks threads alone if I pursued each topic !!!

1. Bring back the draft. For men AND women.
You'd be surprised how fast they get into college or jobs.
(I went to college to avoid the draft.... hint ..)
( so, no, I don't believe in the the government confiscating
bodies for required service. In normal peacetime. )


2. inflation: another "you can't believe the government".
Since they often leave out food and fuel...  Take their numbers
and add 50% ? 

One could look at college tuition compared to the minimum wage.
OK, so you have $1.35/ hour and $125/semester at a community 
college, or $250 at a local University.   Can't use the cost of gas: too volatile.
Multiply by 92.6   Minimum wage $10 => $921/sem  $15=> $1350/semester
What is tuition at UMCP ?

3. I paid for my entire education.  No loans, no grants. I don't have
a lot of sympathy.  I also believe parents shouldn't pay for the
education unless the students are exceptionally gifted.  Too many really
smart ones end up working for the government in the same job for 40
years.  I can't say what contribution they make to society.  (OK, you can
flame a bit with that/this one...  The point is, they're smart and don't take chances.
They get real cozy real quick.  So what was the purpose of the education ?
Where did the ambition go ?   rather , the subsidy of taxpayers. ? )
Then again, I'll ask the question- 
who amI to say persons are required to have ambition ?
( define ambition ).

4.  Bill Gates doesn't have a CS degree or any Certifications in Computers
that I know of. (yes, I saw that on slashdot )

5.  Selling isn't the same as performing ( a repeat from prev email ).
Looking for a job is completely different than working on the job.
hence the entire selection process is flawed.  And I completely 
disagree with the "tests" many of you perform on candidates ( but,
yeah, flog me, that was a different thread ).

6. slashdot the other day has a Q:  What are the things I need to know
going into the first job ?   Interestingly enough, I thought about that over
15 years ago and made a bullet list intending to write some diatribe.
Never got a round tuit.  Some of that was discussed in this thread.

7. I love engineering work.  However, it isn't the easiest "thing" I'm
supposedly suited to do as employment.   
ENDURANCE and PERSISTANCE.

more philosophically:
8.  What happens to the other 80% ( number empirically selected )
of students who started college and dropped out, many in the 3rd year ?
How do they feel about themselves and their work ?  I'm not asking how
well they are doing now- someone else can ask that.  I think the raw numbers
would be staggeringly large compared to the numbers who actually got some diploma.
It's make a great formal study.  Relatedly, I think it would be surprising - and worth
discussing and considering -the "poor" [ sympathy statement] students who 
completed their PhD research and  never finished the thesis.  (People who have 
not been exposed to even  basic college would not know about such things ).
Oh, that one last step was a big one.

9. All college  graduates are not equal. The smart ones move ahead by 
just being sharper, usually more by social means.  Quicker and louder get 
the job.  I suppose nothing wrong with quicker.  But I despise loudness, 
and bullying,  and those who are capable for non-battlefield work  (I.e slower ) 
are passed over in normal environments where 15 seconds of thinking aren't
a waste.  Thats one of the 80 percents of workers.   I've seen projects go way
off center more for personal advancement by "smart" raher than scence failure.  
Most of corporate  work is done by  former "C" grade students who finally figured 
out it's better to do routine work and keep silent. And in the end, after a few 
short months of training, IMHO, 80+% of that work could be done by people 
with 1 year of training.

But thats America.  We have a hugh trained workforce with great capabillity
and most of it goes to waste.  To be bold and blunt, most frickin' managers
have no bloody idea what their employees are capable of.  So everyone
gets cozy and comfortable.  But then, is "ambition" a requirement for a college
diploma?  It IS an indication of prior ambition.

 >
> We really must be doing a very poor job of steering our young adults
> towards affordable education options these days, or at least
> emphasizing the wrong things.  Then again, assumptions are often
> self-inflicted too, and tend to be perpetual and proliferated,
> becoming circular.

I agree.
I wrote a shorter piece on the UnallocatedSpace maillist about what it takes
to succeed in college, even if you are a "C" grade student. A number of
people there indicated an interest in going.  However, over the years, in
conversation, I have learned to distinguish the difference between ( and select
the right words to use ) --- between interest and * curiosity *.  Those who
have stated some interest are really only curious about the idea.  If they were
serious, they would have done something by now- it's been over a year- and 
their behavior would have been otherwise. ( to repeat, I'm not saying they 
or everyone * should * go. )

( owning Nike's vs $10 walmart is one example of student behavior).
( is Nike's still the object of desire, and is desire an polymorphic 
object of a class of teens ?)

Today, I would not have the qualifications to have entered a local University.
( based on high school and 1st year college grades).  It would be engineering,
not Music History.
I get alumni mail and phone calls asking to donate to a school that I could not 
get into, or even would have been able to stay in with my grades.  Back then 
( 1970's ) schools were much more open.  And I've had a reasonalbly successful
career.

Oh, and 95% of computer work is an art and social science, not engineering.
flame war at your own risk.  The only places it's a science is in a math 
research department or circuit design at Intel.  OK, OK,  commercial equivalents
 or other pure research variants accepted.



Walt.........



----
The government is lawless, not the press (people).
( [Supreme Court] Justice Douglas re: The Pentagon Papers )



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