[Novalug] Hello from the newest Newbie to the group, and a question!

John Franklin franklin@elfie.org
Mon Aug 10 21:13:28 EDT 2015


tl;dr:

- There are lots of options in the sub-$1000 range.
- Worry more about things you can't upgrade, like screens and CPUs, less about things like memory or drive size / type, or options that can be run through USB 3.0
- Think about the little features you like in a laptop.

On Aug 10, 2015, at 7:51 PM, David Jensen via Novalug <novalug@firemountain.net> wrote:

> Based on my research to date, I anticipate the "most" Linux compatible
> laptop appears to be the Lenovo Thinkpad T series. but at this
> point the Internet advice goes in many different directions with the
> various flavors of thinkpads (e.g. T450, T450s, T440p, W540p, X1 Carbon,
> etc).  Some forum posters  even indicate the Lenovo build quality is no
> longer as good as it's been in the past with either poor form factor
> decisions regarding touchpad buttons or function keys, etc, or NiVidia
> graphic card compatibility issues  So with that insight, I've also looked
> at other brands and have heard good things about the XPS 13, as well
> as suggestions for build your own from SAGER/CLEVOS.

Lenovo's build quality probably has gone down since they were made by IBM, but they're still pretty solid machines.  The Dell Latitude line and the Dell XPS line are also generally pretty sturdy.  A used Mac is also a great Linux machine, and usually pretty well built.  I've run into some issues with Acer's build quality, but I've mostly bought refurbs and open box specials, so take that with a grain of salt.  HP's pro line should also be pretty well built.

> WHAT DO YOU PLAN ON USING THE COMPUTER FOR?  At the very least web
> browsing, research, email, navigating and getting smart on Linux OS, and
> learning Python...(I know nothing i've mentioned so far is resource
> intensive), but I am also very interested in Virtualization, but know just
> about nothing on the subject, and since i'm uncertain about the resources
> (memory, storage, etc) required to successfully experiment with a few VMs
> up and running, I'm unsure as to how robust my laptop specs should/need to
> be.

VMs can take up a lot of storage space.  If you're talking many many VMs, then either an SSD boot drive with a secondary HDD or a larger SSD, an external and an expectation of copying them on and off the SSD or running them from the external drive.

They can also be memory hogs, especially if you want to run multiple VMs at once.  At some point it becomes more reasonable to build a mslal home tower with 32GB of RAM and run the data center simulation there with lighter laptop for one-off VMs and remote access.

> WHAT DO YOU PLAN ON SPENDING?  Depends.  I think the more economical my
> laptop is, the more courageous I will be to tinker and break/rebuild...as
> long as it has the CAPABILITY to do the things I'd like to do (whether, I'd
> have the skilz to GET the linux/laptop to accomplish the goals i have in
> mind...well, that's on me!)  I would say I'm willing to go up approximately
> $1500.00 but would REALLY prefer to spend less than half that.

You can get a good machine for 1/3 that.  The $500 (+/- $150) laptop range is pretty flush with options, even new.

> FORM FACTOR?  I think 13" is too restricting for me, so I think a 15" is
> about the right size.  I don't anticipate traveling with it too much, as
> the intent is more to move around the house vs. around town.  I already
> have experience dual booting Linux Mint and Win7 on the main desktop,with
> the intent of converting the family to the ways of open source...but it
> didn't take.  NOW, it's all about me :)  but I would like the freedom to
> work on linux projects in the living room, basement, office, etc..so the
> family doesn't forget what I look like.

15" is a good mid-ground.  I agree, I find the 17" systems too bulky and the 13" too small for serious work.  (But they are nice for portability.)

> I am willing to purchase a refurbished laptop from Lenovo, newegg, or a
> used one on ebay, as long as I know WHAT i should be looking for.
> i think right now my minimum requirements are 8GB of RAM, and SSD for the
> hard drive...but very open to suggestions on builds beyond that.
> (if you think VMs require more RAM, just let me know!)


If you can get a good deal, but the memory is lean or it's a regular HDD, still consider it.  Most laptops are pretty easy to upgrade.  (Ultrabooks, on the other hand, often times are impossible to upgrade.  Buyer beware, check the tear-down guides on iFixit before buying.)

Some things to consider:

- Do you need dedicated graphics?
Unless this is going to double as a gaming machine or you want to do some serious visualization work, probably not.  If you're looking to play with OpenCL or the like, a recent AMD APU would work well.  (As I mentioned at the meeting, I am partial to AMD's chips, even though they're not as powerful as Intel's lineup, mostly because they have a real GPU baked in with good Linux driver support.)

I've had problems getting the proprietary NVIDIA drivers to install but the open source drivers are fine.

I know with AMD the power management and performance of the proprietary driver is still superior to the open source driver.  I would expect the same from NVIDIA.  The Intel HD graphics don't (so far as I know) have anything but open source drivers.

- Are you looking for a Touchscreen machine?
Touchscreens are really nice, but support for them in Linux is not really mature.  Once you start using one, you'll find yourself touching every machine you have and getting frustrated the windows don't move.

- What screen resolution do you want?
Back in 1992, my college roommate had a Super VGA card that could do 1024x768.  (ooooooooh)  Laptops today are 16:9, not 4:3, so they do 1366x768.  (how 1990s of them)  My four year old MacBook Pro does 1440x900, which I find is adequate.  if I upgrade, I'd want to get FHD (1920x1080) at a minimum.

- Panel type?
IPS is nice, but will add to the cost.  TN panels are better, but still have bad viewing angles and color reproduction.

- Bluetooth?
It's more common than it used to be, but not yet ubiquitous.  Is it important to you?

- Ethernet?
If you want to archive off some VMs to a home NAS, Gigabit Ethernet will be important.  USB 3.0 to GigE adapters are an option, but I prefer a real port on the machine itself.  Read the specs carefully.  There was a Dell that looked perfect to me, but then I found the ethernet was 10/100.  (Really, Dell?  Macs have had GigE since 2001.  How 1999 of you.)

- Backlit keyboard?
Like seat heaters in a car, once you have it, it's hard to go back.

- Optical drive?
Like Ethernet, you can get some USB solutions, but it becomes one more thing in the laptop bag.

- CPU Generation
Intel released their 5th gen Core series at the beginning of the year (5xxx series parts.)  The original 1st gen are still quite capable and now pretty cheap, but that's going to be a six year old machine.  What's the sweet spot for you?  Personally, I'd be looking at a 4th or 5th gen.

AMD's lineup has had more significant updates in the last couple models from Trinity to Richland to Kaveri.  If you're interested in that line, it's worth going though the AMD marketing materials and the Wikipedia pages and building a grid of part names, speeds, generation, capabilities and TDP.  They went bonkers with the latest set of chip numbers that makes it nearly impossible to easily tell what kind of chip you're going to get without a map.

Whatever generation you go with, I'd suggest at least a Core i5 for virtualization or an A8 or A10 AMD.  If you can find an AMD FX based laptop, that would be great, but you may need to go to Europe or Asia to find one.  They don't seem to exist here in the states.  (Brilliantly, AMD released an APU with an FX name, just to confuse their own APU and CPU product lines.)

- Wireless
802.11ac.

jf
--
John Franklin
franklin@elfie.org






More information about the Novalug mailing list