[Novalug] [Opinion] The age of "Guilt-By-Knowledge" and how the anti-system crowd has "won"

Peter Larsen peter@peterlarsen.org
Wed Apr 29 01:21:00 EDT 2015


Hey Bryan - long time no see here - good to have you back.

On 04/29/2015 12:36 AM, Bryan J Smith via Novalug wrote:
> It may not last forever, but for the next few years, I want to
> congratulate the anti-systemd crowd.  You have "won."  You really
> have.  I had the epiphany this weekend after trying to help two (2)
> people, and that was that.

Interesting perspective, but I don't think I agree that "anti-systemd"
have won. I don't see the architectures of 15 years ago implemented
anywhere in production or in data centers. It's mainly the hobbyist that
learned by doing 20 years ago, who seems to have outgrown their
motivation to learn and just wants IT life to remain where they jumped
off the wagon.

When I deal with new admins - or at least junior admins - knowledge is
indeed still power. And I have the distinct honor to work closely with
young engineers creating powerful code and systems way beyond my
capabilities then and now. So I think the future is bright - since it's
the young generation that'll carry us forward. And as we progress
forward, you can either choose to adapt and keep learning, or you will
find yourself left out and even out of a job if Linux is what you work with.

> [...]
> I guess I long for the "good old days" where -- if you were a sysadmin
> -- you were a technologist first, and didn't get into the political
> non-sense. 

I think we were too young to remember the fights in the 60ies and 70ies.
But remember ASCII - that strange character set that only seems to make
sense for one nation in the world? Try in the early 80ies to suggest it
was insufficient and you were laughed at. I've been in rooms of
Cobol/Fortran programmers that dismissed the Object Oriented programming
languages as a fab that didn't make a difference. Or the OS/2 vs.
DOS/Windows debacle?  The establishment (IBM mainly) laughed at the
upcoming PC platform as a toy that wouldn't become anything. And so on
... lots of politics or emotions in technology before this time. Of
course we cannot forget FSF and Richard Stallman being ridiculed and not
taken serious until a certain OS showed how powerful an idea Open Source
really was (only, a few before that got what RS was saying but the
majority was deadly against it).

As a youngling in the early 70ies I overheard the adult operators at a
datacenter for a university say that we would never see moving pictures
on terminals - "just imagine the framerate required - it's impossible". 
We have revolutions and detractors in IT like we have in the rest of the
industry. But I must admit I never expected there to be death threats
and violence involved in our disagreements
(http://www.zdnet.com/article/lennart-poetterings-linus-torvalds-rant/)
- not a proud moment in our glorious Open Source story.

> That no longer seems to be the case. In fact, again, if you
> are remotely familiar with systemd these days, and try to show someone
> something, it seems to be a liability in the eyes of a lot of alleged
> "Linux advocates."  I thought it was bad with SELinux, but systemd
> takes it to a whole new level.

Well, interesting timing - as you may have noticed the last few days
we've had a discussion around this here. I haven't seen the liability
thing - I can show how it's easier, better and simpler. That usually
changes the argument/discussion to something more constructive. And
hopefully there will be one more person who at least will learn what
systemd is instead of using other people's description of what they
think it is.

I appreciate dissent as long as we can discuss it rationally.

> So I'm guilty ... guilt-by-knowledge.  The anti-systemd has turned
> knowledge of systemd into a liability.  I must have an agenda.  I must
> have some "ulterior motive" to be sharing how to do something.  And
> every time someone asks a systemd question ... I must be prevented
> from helping that original poster!  The only valid responses are
> complaints about systemd.  People like me are the problem.

And yet I bet those who claims this, aren't really managing a lot of
Linux systems in real life. Ok, I've come across a few installations
where SELinux was disabled by default policies - but that usually only
took a few meetings with the right people to correct. To me that's more
a symptom of Windows Admin syndrome (that should be categorized as a
real illness) than bad intend.  http://stopdisablingselinux.com/

> Well done anti-systemd crowd.  Very well done.  You have "won."  It
> may not last, but it will for at least a few more years.  Very well
> done.

So I don't think so. As data centers change to containers and SDN using
tools like OpenStack - the idea of a scripted control of all of these
elements will fall apart. Or rather, I don't think these nay-sayers have
a seat at the table at all. And maybe it's for the best - not sure.

-- 
Regards
  Peter Larsen






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