[Novalug] dynamic symbolic links

Derek LaHousse dlahouss@mtu.edu
Tue Apr 28 18:10:02 EDT 2015


I can't hear you over my mythdora install, and I'm busy hacking on my raspdora system anyway...

er, no...

On April 28, 2015 4:15:45 PM EDT, Peter Larsen <peter@peterlarsen.org> wrote:
>On 04/28/2015 03:50 PM, Derek LaHousse wrote:
>>> It's OLD in IT terms. Again, I cannot help that some distros seems
>to
>>> think time has stopped and aren't interested in solving the problems
>>> modern IT needs. There's a good reason Debian isn't use for
>OpenStack or
>>> any of the new cloud solutions out there. It's stuck in the past and
>not
>>> capable of solving the complex IT architectures of today and
>tomorrow.
>>> And it's not even experimental anymore - so I'm really lost to where
>>> Debian and by indirection Ubuntu wants to go from here. Change and
>>> adaptation is the name of the game.
>>>
>>> The question you should ask is why was Fedora the only one to adopt
>it
>>> initially? Of the hundreds of distros out there - less than a
>handful
>>> seems to want Linux to be anything but a toy?
>>>
>>>
>>> Systemd was introduced in Fedora in 2010 and released as default in
>>> 2011. Even Arch was on systemd by late 2012.  The list of major
>distros
>>> adopting systemd is a fabulous as a foundation to see which distro
>is
>>> looking forward vs. those who are stuck in the past.
>>>
>>> As another poster to this list confirmed, it seems the only reason
>>> Debian and other distros went onboard was that they couldn't fork
>every
>>> piece of software out there to maintain packaging that was
>independent
>>> of systemd. And kicking and
>>> screaming we have the "I'll script it till I die" distros finally
>coming
>>> along.  Ok - exaggeration sells - but I'm trying to get my point
>across
>>> here.
>>>
>> Hey now, don't drag Debian through the mud just because you don't
>know
>> what's going on with the project.
>
>Well, don't assume :)
>But I cannot help noticing that Debian is exactly where Fedora was 4-5
>years ago when Systemd was added as an option to Fedora and the year
>later became mandatory.
>
>>   Systemd didn't make Wheezy as
>> default, so it wasn't a targeted goal of the project.  That doesn't
>> mean you couldn't run it.  The systemd-sysv package was purposely
>> there to set init to /usr/sbin/systemd.
>> Now, Jessie is out.  Support for systemd is a MUST, meaning that
>> debian developers are supposed to make sure their packages work well
>> with systemd. 
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption_and_reception
>It took Debian 3 years to do what Fedora did in 6 months?
>
>>  Yes, they also support sysvinit, and there's discussion
>> of how to generate sysvinit scripts from the declarative language of
>> systemd unit files.  I've yet to see systemd for embedded devices.
>> But Debian supports embedded devices, so it needs flexibility.
>> Debian stable is, well, stable, NOT ancient.  Kernel version is 3.18,
>> systemd is 215, gnome is 3.14.  Don't like it, run testing, get newer
>> stuff.
>
>When I look at Debian announcements it's really behind other distros -
>like for Docker support (only for Jersie unless you apply some nasty
>back-port patches to Wheezy). Only through hacks does releases become
>"able" to run something. Anyway - my point was that I don't see Debian
>and it's like leading much on the FOSS side. They seem to follow and
>wait for others to have done the hard work first.  I do remember the
>time where Debian was state of the art of what was possible with Linux.
>
>As to systemd on embedded devices:
>http://bec-systems.com/site/1098/why-systemd-in-embedded-linux-systems
>
>Of course I think we have to define what type of embedded devices we're
>talking about.  There are devices that have no need for dynamic device
>changes or where the startup changes based on user settings - where
>even
>a staticly compiled kernel makes more sense than using one with initrd
>and dynamic modules.

-- 
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