[Novalug] vi vs. emacs was Re: OT List?

Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org
Wed Sep 23 10:49:14 EDT 2009


James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:  
> Methinks thou speakest with tonue in cheek, but...
> nil
> No, RMS created the FSF.

From: jerry w <jerrywone@gmail.com>

> All by his little self. WOW!
> I rmember a GNU compiler in C++ Class at MCI
> back in 1992 or so...

Less we forget he had a few friends.

E.g., Michael Tiemann is considered the primary developer of
the original cross-compiling capabilities in GCC.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Tiemann  
Also important, he founded the first, profitable open source
company, Cygnus Solutions.

Despite his history, credentials, influence, etc..., there's not a
week that goes by where his words on the desktop aren't
demonized by someone.  More ironic is the fact that I've noted
the words of Mark Shuttleworth as of late aren't too much
different.


 -- 
Bryan J  Smith           Professional, Technical Annoyance 
Linked Profile:         http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Red Hat:  That 'other' American software company built on
open customer selection of options and value, instead of
controlled distribution channels of forced bundle and lock


>
> And remember that ESC x is the same as Meta X,
> and we've got those keys on
> our keyboards now, even in the Linux Text Terminals.

But I can't find super and hyper anywhere on this old
Sony Vaio desktop keyboard, as it's got some Windoze
flag keys, and my old Beige G3 Motorola (old world) Mac
has some Apple on it's little keys.  I'm assuming
Commadore Amiga and others have it.

Has Corp America gone wild, thinking we need
a branded key for each manufacturer???

>
> Bill Joy created that Abomination CSH. And NFS.

See Shell?
Network File System?
The Sun will never set on anything not involved in that...

>
> Looking back, I think that WNJ was actually more of a good force than a bad
> one, and that I may be unfairly harping on his weakest contributions.

Symbol table lookup problem WNJ, see RMS instead. ;-/

"You have now applied for GNU SaintHood.
MIT Media Lab is in acknowledgement of receipt
of that application, and will considering your contributions...

It will be processed by an AI robot
in wearable electronics
(to fit in with mere carbon based life forms).

Please proceed to the next level of Global ThermoNuclear
War, and view a copy of the retro AI film RealGenius.
Popcorn optional.
"
>
> He's a Good Guy. And VI is a Good Editor. It's just not as Powerful and
> Elegant as emacs is. And WNJ isn't the programmer that RMS is.

Good Vs. Saint?  Is that a fair fight?

One has to die, the other is still enjoyed here on this earth,
or at least outside of mecca Cambridge, MA, but me little
low life has not been the same since Negraponte and Bender
visited Washington, DC capital last week and didn't pay
homage to us mere slaves/ members in the
OLPCLearningClub.org after another unacknowledged
slave week on XOs at

http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/ClassActs/PioneeringOLPCAcrossAfghanistan


He says after yesterday window shopping
refurbished Asus EeePC 900s for $199
(save one of each type/class/kind for moi, please)
in DisGust, as can't buy XOs retail,
and the G1G1 from Winter 2007
has bit the dust.  AND MIT'S COSMIC EGOS
ARE GETTING ON MY NERVES...

>
> JIM
thanks for playing.  It's been a pleasure chatting with you.


>
> jerry w wrote:
>>
>> But I like the whole kitchen sink to make a simple change.
>> I even like microEmacs in Open FirmWare on the XO,
>> but wish I could access the filesystem and save work...
>>
>> Sorry, I can't speak to VI/VIM/ etc, as that whole
>> esc-q! means that llliisspp people should just keep remembering
>> cryptography in commands and keep typing...
>> and typing, but at least some machines have autocomplete,
>> though they used to cost $100k, so that Harvard types
>> could do AI...
>>
>> But I've lost my state, so must go join unix-haters now,
>> as I can't Save World here...
>>
>> ;-/
>>
>> btw, what other contributions did Bill Joy have?
>> Did he create FSF? [deliberately adding fuel to fire...]
>>
>> yes, we need a blabber/ chat type list, as this is not
>> announcing a new SpeakSign XO kernel module,
>> or Net Boot Africa now works...
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:22 AM, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd
>> <JECottrell3@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jay Hart wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> That seems like a hard question to answer.  Lets try to solve something
>>>> a
>>>> little easier, like which is better, vi or emacs.  Once we settle this
>>>> question, I think everything will work itself out.
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Not only did he foolishly open the door, but I even more foolishly
>>> walked thru it!
>>>
>>> Well, "Better" is such a subjective word.
>>>
>>> There is no question that emacs is more Powerful. And while I have yet
>>> to plumb the heights/depths to which vim can rise/sink with its
>>> connection to perl/python/tcl/whatever, unfortunately it will never
>>> quite escape its ancestry, vi.
>>>
>>> Let's face it, Bill Joy was a Quick and Dirty style hacker. He's no
>>> Richard Stallman, that's for sure.
>>>
>>> The problem with vi is that the closer you look at it, the deeper you
>>> look, the kludgier it becomes, a myriad of little syntax glitches. Emacs
>>> was designed cleanly, and as you descend into emacs, it gets more
>>> Beautiful when you reach Pure Lisp. And if you don't see Lisp as
>>> Beautiful, you just don't know enough about Languages.
>>>
>>> Having said all that, these days I tend to use vim a lot more because
>>> I'm doing a lot more quick and dirty stuff, it's faster to start up, and
>>> I'm trying to learn all the newer features.
>>>
>>> JIM
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Novalug mailing list
>>> Novalug@calypso.tux.org
>>> http://calypso.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>



-- 
Jerry W
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