[Novalug] No FLOSS supporter will use SuSe? was Re: [Ma-linux] hell freezes over, and Microsoft, Novell join in Linux Pact

John A. Heidingsfelder Jr. john@heidingsfelder.org
Mon Nov 6 20:54:38 EST 2006


Hi,

I'm still on the fence with this(rather Novell/MS are), but historically
Microsoft eats it's young.  Citrix is an exception, for now.  But I
don't know if history applies here because it's young have always been
proprietary coding shops.  I don't think they can hurt Novell unless
Novell let's them.  The GPL is a different creature, and built to defend
against just this kind of IP assault.

>From a corporate customer point of view, I have not yet heard the words
Intellectual Property when referring to the use of Linux and Microsoft.
The thought process is more rational.  You buy a car and you own it.
You pay for fixing it and putting spinner rims and fuzzy dice on the
mirror.  Software hasn't gotten there yet- maybe one day soon.  In 500
years we'll call it the dark ages part deux, but we aren't quite there
yet.  

What I have heard is that the glue, such as AD or NDS, and it's working
parts have been lacking in ease of use.  It's doable- I do it at my
place, but it's not terribly friendly out of the box.  Maintaining large
groups of servers, either with Linux or windows, is terribly hard to
scale with commodity tools.  And it hurts both camps I think.  You think
twice about stacking on another 40 servers when you can't physically
manage the first 240.  And that's where the Linux kernel's XEN or VM
comes in.  That probably made MS take notice, and fast.  

Although, it is uncomfortable for me to see Balmer say that Linux is a
cancer not more than a few years ago, and now he wants to make an IP
bridge to the GPL.  In the end, the GPL can stand on it's own and if MS
decides to swipe at it, the GPL can hurt them more than the other way
around.  That goes for anything Novell can do as well.  

Novell has IP rights on some old but good technology, and MS has IP
rights on clicking buttons.  And they both should to work together, this
is true.  Do they have to- no, of course not.  But they'll make more
money if they do. 

Long term it's better for Microsoft.  Short term it's better for Novell.
Overall it doesn't matter much.  Niether company makes the rules
anymore.  It's the GPL's world, and they're just living in it.

But trust Microsoft not to want to destroy Linux, no, I don't think so.
It's the tale of the scorpion and the frog.  It's their nature and their
survival that is at stake.  They can gain short term by poisoning a well
or two, just like with the SCO proxy.  But long term they're just
postponing the inevitable and killing themselves.  

Money was made in the old economy by being a gateway/inhibitor between
the client and the product they want.  Much like a toll road.  The
current economy is based on service- not repetition or holding a claim
to a title.  Microsoft doesn't get this yet, but I think Novell does.  I
think Novell/Suse will be OK in the end.  Not because I trust them
explicitly, but because they are bound to the GPL.  I use SuSE at my
workplace, and I have no reason to change at of this time.  If Novell
plays this right, they can come away clean and get some really decent
tools that makes Linux a no-brainer for everyone. 

John



On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 20:22 -0500, gregory pryzby wrote:
> And I expect quite a few people to leave SUSE/Novell if something
> 'dumb' was done like violate the GPL.
> 
> Upsetting RMS isn't a bad thing in my book and not even an infraction.
> Just read the kernel list for GPL V3 stuff that Linus and friends
> wrote.
> 
> Just like everyone else, I wait to understand what happened and why. 
> 
> Because my paycheck rides on it and I have refused to use Windows
> since 1986, I expect I will be watching closer than most ;)
> 
> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 07:40:42PM -0500, Jay Hart wrote:
> > Well said Rich.
> > 
> > I happen to see the cup as half empty, but I'm inclined on this one to wait.
> > Plus, I don't understand both parties position. I'd like to see what happens
> > in the next six months or so.
> > 
> > However, if I see Suse going the wrong way (IMHO), I guess it will be time to
> > use something else. I've been using Suse for over 5 years now, and love it.
> > 
> > Jay
> > 
> > > On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 01:30 -0500, Jay Sulzberger wrote:
> > >> nd, of course, no supporter of free software will use SUSE.
> > >> SUSE has agreed to pay based on the mere threat of software
> > >> patent claims.  Novell is now acting in favor of softwrae patents
> > >> and against free software.
> > >>
> > >
> > > <puzzled face>
> > > Your statement that "no supporter of free software will use SUSE" got my
> > > attention.    What are you trying to say?  I, as an open source/free S/W
> > > supporter, actually use SuSe... on several machines.  And, I even paid
> > > for it several times.  Before I start parsing what "free" means ... ah
> > > nostalig memories right in time with tomorrow! ... I would like to get
> > > some clarification.
> > > </puzzled face>
> > >
> > > I presume you are referring to the statement "that Microsoft will
> > > provide ???balance payments??? to Novell, and Novell will pay royalties to
> > > Microsoft for the use of its intellectual property" when saying this is
> > > prohibited by the anti-trust settlement.
> > >
> > > <shrug>That is another interesting statement.  </shrug>
> > >
> > > As I have not personally combed the anti-trust settlement agreement to
> > > determine this is true, I'd tend to think that Novell's legal team would
> > > have checked this out prior to signing something with M$.  Why waste
> > > "good" money if it's not worthwhile?  That does not seem to compute in
> > > my eyes - without delving into things.
> > >
> > > I understand your hesitation and treidation with the agreement.  What is
> > > Microsoft's _real_ plan?  Excellent question.  I doubt that it is to
> > > help Linux... the agreement is likely to
> > >    a) bolster foundation to attack the GPL somehow,
> > >    b) agree against IBM/HP/... to pay some royalties for some YTBD IP
> > >       infringements and
> > >    c) erode RedHat's position in the non-MS arena.
> > >
> > > This said - I believe we should review everything _both sides_ say and a
> > > very very wary view.  But there could be goodness that comes out of
> > > this.  While we look for the bad - let's look for the good.  Then we can
> > > balance them and make a rational assessment.
> > >
> > > OK.  The NOVALUG mail list is officially back.  ;-)
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > GPG/PGP Key Id: 1B257AEC from pgp.mit.edu
> > >
> > > Remember, all Windows machines are, by definition, fault tolerant.
> > >
> > >               They run Windows don't they!!
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